Curse

Zodiak · Sep 14, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

[skill]Flail[/skill], "I Am Unstoppable!", [skill]Standing Slash[/skill][skill]Silverwing Slash[/skill][skill]Galrath Slash[/skill][skill]Sun and Moon slash[/skill][skill]Dragon Slash[/skill], Summon Ruby Djinn

I find that no matter what, the Summon Ruby Djinn is so overpowering. My Warrior was the first profession I got him on and he's found a Perma-Place on my bar.

Not only does he last an INSANE amount of time but will use Immolate every 3 seconds to set targets on fire, mostly whatever I am targeting, and between the 3 second recharge of immolate, will proceed to chuck fiery projectiles.

The AI of Guildwarls does not seem to give much priority to killing Summons so most of the time he is free to do his pyromantic work safely, spreading the loving joy of Burning to everything, which does INSANE damage.

Seeing as I almost always go all adrenaline, the 10 energy cost really doesnt bother much. Just cast before entering battle as it is a 3 second cast and enjoy benefiting from awesome backup.

"I am Unstoppable!" gives ALL of the Benefits of Balanced Stance with the addition of +24 armor and being invulnerable to Crippling, its considered a Shout and it lasts MUCH longer.

wilderness · Sep 14, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Justified Rage - W/
-

Skills:
For Great Justice[skill]Dragon Slash[/skill][skill]flail[/skill][skill]Sever Artery[/skill][skill]Gash[/skill]Finish Him Sunspear Rebirth Signet[skill]Lion's Comfort[/skill]

Attributes: Swordsmanship: 12+1+3. Tactics: 10+1. Strength: 8+1.

Template Code: OQATEXKXNaxxvAwImkv6qAj7vCA
-

Build Guide
A very fun high-damage adrenaline build. While FGJ is up you have 20 seconds of completely free DS, and with these attributes you're hitting your standard EoTN mob for around 50dmg a time.

Lail or FGJ will charge Lion's Comfort in no time.

Finish him is an awesome Norn skill. If your title is high enough it'll hit for close to Final Thrust, it causes cracked armour AND deep wound, and it's very low energy/recharge.

Flail or FGJ will charge Lion's Comfort in no time.

The main bulk of this build is Adrenaline based, and charges very quickly. FGJ, Dragon Slash and Flail are all great at keeping you topped up. Your entire energy bar can be devoted to two low cost energy skills and as FGJ takes 45 seconds to recharge, most of your energy can be focused on Finish Him which, unlike Final Thrust, will always be ready to activate.
-

Build Variants:
If you don't have EoTN, you could replace Finish Him with Final Thrust, but as you lose all adrenaline it's somewhat counter productive.
-

Another build I love is this one: Plague Nuker - W/N.

Hope you enjoy it if you try.

glountz · Sep 14, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

The Dragonslasher build above has no sever/gash combo, and thus can not cause a deep wound. I commented that without the deep wound that the Eviscerate build you so happily/angrily quoted was better due to Evis.

Instead of easily flaming, you should try understand why Sever Gash is not so good on a DS-FGJ bar. If you actually tried it out you should have already understood.
The fact is that you are executing a very weak combo (but the only one available) on sword bar. Sever just don't do any +damage, and the one from Gash is negligible. Additionnally, on DS-FGJ bar, DS renews on itself. That means that you litterally spam a skill that inflict +40 damage. While your Sever-Gash kills two skill slots on your bar, is used once then are useless, spamming DS will completely overboost your DPS. Sever+Gash will inflict +17 damage then +100 from DW, once. While you sever+gash, DS will be used twice inflicting +80 damage, close to the Sever-Gash combo, but with only one skill slot.
You axe build is pretty great, not only because you've the deep wound, but because your Eviscerate-Executionner have, in addition of DW, serious +damage. Evisc+Exec is extremely superior to Sever-Gash.
So DW from Gash is useless on a DS bar. However, you could still use FGJ, then Crippling Slash-Gash instead of Dragon Slash. But due to the lack of +damage and the uselessness of crippilng in Normal mode, I wouldn't recommand usingthis, unless a mission requires movement control specifically (like Moddok Crevice bonus mission).

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 14, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Instead of easily flaming, you should try understand why Sever Gash is not so good on a DS-FGJ bar. If you actually tried it out you should have already understood.

I have used it, and the dragonslasher is inferior to a similarly built Eviscerate/Exec Striker. That was my point. Gash needs someone to bleed, so no DW from Dragonslash means mindless wacking to achieve the same results just to use a sword? Not very logical,imo. As for the flame, it has a purpose because Age constantly thinks idiot comments+lack of reading fully=knowledge. you started defending a person who misunderstood/didn't read the whole thread so far, so I understand you comment.

Quote:

The fact is that you are executing a very weak combo (but the only one available) on sword bar. Sever just don't do any +damage, and the one from Gash is negligible. Additionnally, on DS-FGJ bar, DS renews on itself. That means that you litterally spam a skill that inflict +40 damage. While your Sever-Gash kills two skill slots on your bar, is used once then are useless, spamming DS will completely overboost your DPS. Sever+Gash will inflict +17 damage then +100 from DW, once. While you sever+gash, DS will be used twice inflicting +80 damage, close to the Sever-Gash combo, but with only one skill slot.

This is obvious, yet without the DW, the D slash Combo lacks the killing power of the Axe build in question.

Quote:

You axe build is pretty great, not only because you've the deep wound, but because your Eviscerate-Executionner have, in addition of DW, serious +damage. Evisc+Exec is extremely superior to Sever-Gash.

Which is what I have been saying from the beginning.

Quote:

So DW from Gash is useless on a DS bar. However, you could still use FGJ, then Crippling Slash-Gash instead of Dragon Slash. But due to the lack of +damage and the uselessness of crippilng in Normal mode, I wouldn't recommand using this, unless a mission requires movement control specifically (like Moddok Crevice bonus mission).

This is also a solid point, and why I never even brought up Crip Slash+Gash as an alternative. D Slash is the equivalent, damage wise, to Eviscerate, yet without a DW, it is inferior as a killswitch/quick twitch attack. It then is placed as second best in warrior attack elites, but it excels if adding a conjure on the top for added damage and pressure. Tough to do, but a rit weapon spell will make up for that, if casted by another. Then, the D Slasher is more dangerous without the DW, due to assistance by the rit and the weapon spell, but otherwise, it's second best.

glountz · Sep 14, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

BTW I would rather use cyclone axe than Enraged Charge on your evisc bar Darkpower. AoE damage and nice adre from FGJ if you hit many foes. But I understand Enraged allows you an evisc combo ready.

Age · Sep 14, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

You still don't read too well, so ok, I'll break it down into small words for you. The Dragon Slash build that is popular never uses a deep wound. That makes them inferior to the Eviscerate build I put in. Do you get it now?

Dropping your foe by 20%+ in one strike>Adrenaline spamming when the 20%+ in one strike occurs during adrenaline spamming.

The only thing is Dragon Slash provides four strike of adrenaline to use skills like rush and any other skills.It is highly ued in PvP here is GvG build.Sever Cash can cause deep wound at 4 to 6 strike of A.Eviscrete is at 8 strike of adrenaline and I am not saying Evis. doesn't cause deep wound what I am say in my first post is Dragon Slash is better than 100 blades as it neve use to be an elite.The OP is and wants to use sword some ppl like swords.This is the build.

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:W/any_Dragon_Sword

You could alway use a Hammer on those that don't bleed as well why didn't you give out information that as well.Hammers can be very effective but to those that do sever and gash is fine and you get that early in the game in pre.Dismember the only other axe skill that causes deep wound you get in post.

jesh · Sep 14, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Reading all the posts made me realize something:
The buff to FGJ just made a deep wound DS build better.
You can go through sever and gash once, then just spam one DS after another until your target dies. There really isn't a need for other attack skills.

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 15, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

[skill]Swift Chop[/skill] also causes a deep wound when blocked, either by stance, skill, or spell. Just pointing it out, not making an arguement for it.

yesitsrob · Sep 15, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

For Great Justice
Standing Slash
Sun and Moon Slash
Dragon Slash
Flail
SS Rebirth Sig
Save Yourselves
There's Nothing To Fear

- Zealous Weapon.

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 15, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

For Great Justice
Standing Slash
Sun and Moon Slash
Dragon Slash
Flail
SS Rebirth Sig
Save Yourselves
There's Nothing To Fear

- Zealous Weapon.

I hope you do realize that this build is VERY close to what has already been put up, right? If not totally identical.

yesitsrob · Sep 15, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

I realise it's the best general purpose PVE warrior build. I don't actually care what else has been put up.

zling · Sep 15, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

the reason Dragon Slash->Standing Slash->Sun and Moon Slash is better than Executioner's Strike->Eviscerate->Agonizing Chop in PvE is due to the spammability and high dmg of the build. yeah Eviscerate gives deep wound, but foes in PvE will die fast enough, remember you have a team, and most likely a few nukers that help a lot with the dmg. so spammability of your skills is worth more than inflicting a deep wound than auto attacking like an idiot until you can do it again.
PvP is a different story, but we're not talking about that now.
also the Sever Artery->Gash combo on a Dragon Slasher is inferior to the Standing Slash->Sun and Moon Slash combo because it reduces your spammability, lowers your damage output(actually this is rather build dependant as Sun and Moon Slash is more effective when there are damage mods such as orders, conjure, vampiric/sundering, etc, but even without them +~35+another sword hit is close enough to the ~100 of deep wound even without any extra damage mods) and the deep wound is conditional, blocking skills, blinding, etc isnt too uncommon in PvE, some mobs have condition removal that can remove the bleeding before the deep wound and of course the non fleshie types...

just remember that the basic PvE build for a warrior should be
3 attack skills, most likely including an elite-> IAS, most likely flail-> Healing Signet, or another self heal-> utility skill, or additional damage-> Watch Yourself, or another defensive skill-> res

Darkpower Alchemist · Sep 16, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

the reason Dragon Slash->Standing Slash->Sun and Moon Slash is better than Executioner's Strike->Eviscerate->Agonizing Chop in PvE is due to the spammability and high dmg of the build. yeah Eviscerate gives deep wound, but foes in PvE will die fast enough, remember you have a team, and most likely a few nukers that help a lot with the dmg. so spammability of your skills is worth more than inflicting a deep wound than auto attacking like an idiot until you can do it again.
PvP is a different story, but we're not talking about that now.
also the Sever Artery->Gash combo on a Dragon Slasher is inferior to the Standing Slash->Sun and Moon Slash combo because it reduces your spammability, lowers your damage output(actually this is rather build dependant as Sun and Moon Slash is more effective when there are damage mods such as orders, conjure, vampiric/sundering, etc, but even without them +~35+another sword hit is close enough to the ~100 of deep wound even without any extra damage mods) and the deep wound is conditional, blocking skills, blinding, etc isnt too uncommon in PvE, some mobs have condition removal that can remove the bleeding before the deep wound and of course the non fleshie types...

just remember that the basic PvE build for a warrior should be
3 attack skills, most likely including an elite-> IAS, most likely flail-> Healing Signet, or another self heal-> utility skill, or additional damage-> Watch Yourself, or another defensive skill-> res

You just made a statement that goes for every warrior build in play currently, but applied it to sword builds.

As for having to auto attack to build adrenaline..guess what? The D Slasher does the same thing! Just because you spam D Slash doesn't mean you will connect any more consistently than an eviscerate warrior. Also with FGJ! on either build, the difference is that your money skill is second best and you're hoping you will constantly hit your targets to keep the adrenaline flowing, while the eviscerate build is good for what a warrior is supposed to be doing at this point...killing stuff. The D Slasher is not doing anything more than wacking at a monster more times to do the same thing the eviscerate warrior does faster and more effeciently.

Poor practices in PvE become poor practices in PvP. Warriors should try to be more effective and effecient when doing their job, whatever that may be. in this case, being a better killer means DW will cause you to kill faster than wacking mindlessly on bodies as they run around. Once adrenaline is built, your extra adrenaline from D Slash only helps you spam a hard hit, not a killer hit, which the Eviscerate is. Both work, just one does what you want faster and more effectively wherever you take it.

blue.rellik · Sep 16, 2007, 06:33 AM // 06:33

The only reason you should run Eviscerate in PvE is in HM against groups with more than 1 monk.

Otherwise Deep Wound is not needed, DSlash's continuous 90+ damage > deep wound every 6 seconds or so

glountz · Sep 16, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

As for having to auto attack to build adrenaline..guess what? The D Slasher does the same thing! Just because you spam D Slash doesn't mean you will connect any more consistently than an eviscerate warrior. Also with FGJ! on either build, the difference is that your money skill is second best and you're hoping you will constantly hit your targets to keep the adrenaline flowing, while the eviscerate build is good for what a warrior is supposed to be doing at this point...killing stuff. The D Slasher is not doing anything more than wacking at a monster more times to do the same thing the eviscerate warrior does faster and more effeciently.

No. As rellik said, Eviscerate is more powerful than DS, but calculated on three hits only. On the long term, as DW effect doesn't cumulate, DS is vastly superior. Because once you have used your eviscerate combo you're done and loose your DPS. Eviscerate is used for a spike, not for DPS.
I personnally bring on a DS bar only one attack skill: DS. It is self sufficient, and leaves tons of skill slots for supportive shouts/PVE skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

Poor practices in PvE become poor practices in PvP. Warriors should try to be more effective and effecient when doing their job, whatever that may be. in this case, being a better killer means DW will cause you to kill faster than wacking mindlessly on bodies as they run around. Once adrenaline is built, your extra adrenaline from D Slash only helps you spam a hard hit, not a killer hit, which the Eviscerate is. Both work, just one does what you want faster and more effectively wherever you take it.

You're wrong. PVE is not PvP. You don't need to spike in PVE. You really seem to forgot that Deep wound is a one shot damage boost, that can't be reapplied. DS is not used in PvP because it's DPS and DPS is easily countered, especially through prot.
An Eviscerate bar has more spike power, that is, compressing damage in a short amount of time, say three seconds, than a DS bar, but is clearly inferior to DS in terms of DPS. Once you've eviscerated a mob, you need to wait for the spike to be ready. Dslasher don't need. He's hammering every mob the one after the other to death with a fully charged DS.
There are few heals and even lower prot in PVE. Thus, having DPS is far more beneficial than having a spike power.
That's why an Eviscerate bar is inferior to a DS one. That's why AoE is better than single target spiking.

yesitsrob · Sep 17, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Dragon Slash is the strongest PVE Warrior skill in my extremely humble opinion. It has incomparable DPS to literally anything, especially when used with FGJ. It can also be used to charge other adrenal skills (See: Save Yourselves) and allows for such combos as DSlash > SY > Dslash > SY to give your party +100AL constantly. Obviously if your party doesn't really need the armor you can do a much more straight forward D Slash > D Slash > etc...

Now, unless you plan on adrenal spiking in PVE, Eviscerate and Deep Wound in general is significantly less significant. The healing reduction is probably the best thing the Deep Wound offers in PVE but I'd barely say it's worth lowering your DPS by that much... if you really want healing reduction, Defile Flesh on a necro would be a better choice.

That said, Eviscerate is by no means bad either and is suitable enough. But the way I see it: Stronger DPS + better party support is more effective than better spiking capabilities when it comes to pve.

Timotheus Amadeus · Sep 17, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

The only thing that's left is a good selfheal, anyone got any suggestions?

Stormlord Alex · Sep 17, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

If you really must... Healing signet.

Nexus Icon · Sep 17, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Alex, it's good to see someone else not keen on bringing a self heal

I've been making builds without self heals for the best part of 2 years now, and I don't regret it one bit.

Stormlord Alex · Sep 17, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Yeah, tbh... I'd only ever bring one in a PuG, PvE-speaking, where the monks likely suck. As it is now, there's so many better skills I can pack that I'd actually USE... WY!, SY!, Distracting Blow et al.